This is the Dresden memorial in Germany. For all of you who dont know, Dresden is a city in Eastern Germany that was bombed during the allies in WWII (when the Germans had pretty much already lost) Issue being Dresden didnt have a military posistion or soldiers, it was just a city with a lot of civilains. Nonetheless, the allies bombed it and thousnads of people in the town died in a very greusome way. This is the memorial in Germany to commemorate that event
i know this makes me an asshole ,but they deserved something like this ! after rotterdam ,warshau and all the others .and that is by the way just the top of the iceberg ! the German people got what they deserved trampled into the dust and the mud like the half-baked ubermenchen they are ! by the way ,i have nothing against non-Nazi Germans ...although that might still makes me an ass
Iīm a german history-fan and maybe I can explain you what to think about it.
We all know the Nazis did awful crimes, but it is never ok to do the same, or should the allies ("good guys") do the same as a Nazi? You must see every crime on its own, not compare them.
Why did they bomb the cities? You might think to destroy the military and industrial areas...but the only reason was, to damage the moral. And this not reason enough to kill and burn 600.000 people (from 1939-1945).
Especially not a few weeks before the red army reached Berlin. Dresden had no military and no important industry and it was full of hundred-thousands of expelled people from the east, cause the red army killed and expelled 15 million from the german east-regions.
It can never be right to punish the normal people for what the government did.
Especially as a dutch you should be on our side, you were part of the german states till 1648! The Amis call you "Dutch" because they couldnīt pronounce deutsch. Youīre part of the german nether-franconian tribe.
How can normal people deserve to burn alive and sink half in the melting streets? Ever seen videos or pictures what happened to the beautiful Dresden?
Iīm really sorry for what happened to Rotterdam, but especially because you know how barbaric this was, how can you dare to say the same must happen to people in Dresden?
And Dresden was only the peak of the iceberg, nearly all big cities were bombed down. In Dresden died in 24 hours more civilians than in the whole war in England.
as you have probably read my other comments you kinda know my opinion so simply put : there are no good-guys in war ,and in my opinion there are no civilians ,only the armed and the un-armed .especially nazi civis who when armed will also fight (volkssturm and volksgrenadieren ,hitlerjugend and so on ) it is terrible what happened during the entire war but in my heartless opinion: your people deserved it after all that was done by them ,you cant just say its the governments mistakes.that said i must agree that it was toughly unnecessary in many ways .and the city created a martyr for the last fanatics .BUT it counts 600 thousand people down among the last volkssturm reserves and god what an impact it must have been for any German soldier to know that any and all resistance will be utterly crushed like shown .SO SIMPLY SAID : SUCKS TO BE ON THE LOSING SIDE as unfair and heartless as it was and is .and finnaly i would like to add :we were on your side .... until you occupied us as a neutral countrie ,killed our Jewish inhabitants ,destroyed our economy ,forced men to labor in Germany like slaves ,bombed our cities starved our people and used my countrie as a playground for the SS and as a front line for 5 FUCKING YEARS ... so excuse us if we dont stand beside you when we talk about payback ...ahem ,i mean poor dresden of course
But I donīt agree in how you use "you", what means the Germans for sure, because you must say the Nazis, you must see Germany also as occupied by them, they killed also all Germans that didnīt think like them, or do you think only jews were killed in Germany by them? We did also suffer by our government and that is the mistake you make, you think: government and political system = Germany, but thatīs wrong, they havnīt got to sth. with the 1000 year old cultural nation Germany and the normal Germans.
The people who had to join the Volkssturm had no choice btw.
Just a few quotes by Churchill to change your view:
Iīm not interested in any industrial areas in Dresden, I want to kill the refugees from Breslau!
I donīt care if Germany is leaded by Hitler or a priest, I want to destroy it.
Or read about the Morgenthau-Plan, where a jewish man really thought about sterilizing all Germans to wipe them completely out.
You really think the allied did that because of the Nazis? Do you think Britain, the most racistic colonial-empire since centuries did want to liberate jews? No they feared only the german power, nothing else.
So you canīt respect the bomber-pilots or their leaders, they were the same might-hungry asses as the Nazis.
well ....i think you do not understand who your talking to ,i am not an allied ass kisser and i am fully aware of the facts .BUT i do think that Germany by that time was not Germany anymore ,tell me what was left of anything that wasn't nazi-correct .your culture was already raped by Nazism or do you think that a hate for jews is from the good old days, or the glorious statues of Jewish inventors who suddenly turned Aryan over the night ? or the fact that Hitler-jugend was mandatory ,to be then followed by duty to the fatherland in the factories or the wehrmacht...after 13 years of hitler there where few left to deny hitlers lies .so basically by the time of 1944 proud germany was just the shit pile of what hitler had decided was going to last a thousend years as the third reich .or you must believe that by that time it was still the ss scaring people into following like 1938. and you quoting those lines make me wonder if you truly understand the size of Germany's crimes, the death of 64 million people over the course of 5 years in a war started by the (nazi)german would make everyone wishing for their utter destruction .and what do you try to say with England just fighting for survival? germany was for over 3 years fighting a losing war! . please note that i am against any form of Nazism not against any German and i do not side with anyone but Holland...but YOU should understand there are no good guys ,not on your side and not on mine only the cold facts of who won and who was defeated and therefor payed the price .
There were not 64 million dead, official 55 million and you included even the pacific war it seems, it wouldīve taken place also without Germany. Most historians say today, because of Hitler died 11 million people, soldiers of the enemy included. Stalin killed much more, especially of his own people and innocent german civilians in the east.
So itīs a rather wrong argument to say, he caused 64 million deaths. The world war wouldīve come anyway, Stalin was ready to attack. Thanks to the Germans only half of Europe became communistic, Stalin was ready to attack , too, his plan was that Germany, France and England attack each other, become very weak after 2-3 years and then he invades whole Europe.
Thatīs why Stalin didnīt talk for a week, when he found out that the Germans attack, he knew, his plan for world-domination was dead now.
And well Germany offered England a thousand times peace, why should they want to destroy a nation that is germanic, too? (Anglo-Saxons). But Churchill this war-criminal didnīt want it, tho the british king was for Germany, as well as the swedish.
Yes the defeated pay the price, but that doesnīt mean they deserve it, it sounds extremely antigerman, when you say, the Dresdner shouldīve died itīs ok.
What if Germany was not a dictatorship, but fought in a normal war, would they deserve it too? Or only when theyīre Nazis? The Amis wouldīve killed them anyway, not matter if theyīre good or bad.
Well, technically he is right on one thing, it is closer to 60 million since I count civilians and soldiers on both sides. 11 million were killed in the holocaust (jews, disables, ex) but that doesnt count all the civilians killed in the crossfire or all the German soldiers killed fighting for the fuhrer. And...its not accurate to say the world war would have come anyway, that sounds like an excuse, and its not a very good arguemnt to say that the nazis stopped stalin from taking over europe, they really just gave him an excuse to go foreword with it quickly. Stalin took east europe because he declared war on germany because of stalingrad and operation barbarossa. Germany might have offered peace to englnad but it was more of a 'give me the land or I kill you' peace. Besides, it wasnt Englnad that wanted to fight, hitler invaded poland and continuously broke his promises not to invade. England had an obligation to defend poland and stop itself from being attacked because hitler made it quite clear he wasnt going to stop invading. And I'm VERY insulted. The Morgenthau-plan wasnt a plan to sterilize all of Germany, it was a plan by Henry Morgenthau jr. (who yes was a jew) for how germany should be treated after the war. The plan laid out that germany should be weakened so that it wouldnt be able to make war again, basically have its war industry taken apart, have it repay people it had occupied, give certain land peices to poland and have the land splitinto three states, the plan was shot down for being too harsh and instead they came up with the marshall plan [link] The plan never said anything about sterlilization, you must be referring to the quote by not Morgenthau, but henry roosevelt, quote "We have got to be tough with Germany and I mean the German people not just the Nazis. We either have to castrate the German people or you have got to treat them in such a manner so they can't just go on reproducing people who want to continue the way they have in the past." That castration wasnt in the plan. But the way you said 'jewish plan to sterilize the germans' isnt only wrong its quite insulting as I've literally been on neo-nazi sites that said that sort of thing, not to mention Joseph Goebbels said this plan was a 'jewish plan to subjugate germany' and used it as an excuse to kill even more jews. Naterally, i'm the one whoposted this picture, so the innocents didnt deserve this and the memorial is totally appropriate. And you know me, I'm far from anti-german.
But donīt you see the trap, the British and French gave Poland after ww 1. a lot of german territory and then immediately allied with it, so that Germany canīt get them back without war. The Poles was offered several times, to make votes, what to do with the polish corridor and Danzig, but they were too arrogant to do that, they still discriminated the Germans there. Thatīs why I definitly say, it was right to attack Poland, but not the way they did it and what they did afterwards of course. But if you would know the stories of the East-Germans and what the Poles, Russians and many others did with the Germans 1945/ 46, you wouldnīt say anything against it.
England and France surely couldīve stayed neutral till that date. And why didnīt they declare war on Russia, too? It took half of Poland, too 2 weeks later.
Iīm not sure if it was Morgenthau or Kaufmann plan, one of it was a cruel plan, the other one was a bit softer. But both plans were antigerman and wouldnīt allow Germany to have a normal proud place under the other nations.
I said itīs a jewish plan, because a jewish man did it, nothing else XD Donīt be offended You canīt deny, that there were many jews at that time, that hated Germany deeply and had also radical and unhuman ideas, and this people arenīt better. Also when Germany did this awful crimes, it may never be, that we can not criticize Israel or the peoples again.
about the 64 million death ,i say that you are right ,i meant in the war Hitler caused .he himself is only directly responsible for Europe i guess . Stalin is indeed also 2 times worse if not more then Hitler ,but as i said before : he won the second world war ,so everyone left him alone D: .but please stay by the point ,we are talking about germany now ! i am also aware of stalins attack plans but i'd say that german non-nazi army supported by the allies would have halted soviet advance because although hitler can be left out in a alternative war scenario ,people like krupp and mauser would still create the best weapons in the world ! also another thing was that Russia had done a cleansing among its commanders and as seen in the operation barbarossa ,russia wasnt ready .and maybe england fought germany as it could gain some things from it : it would if victorious stand as only functioning countrie in Europe ,it could easily gain more influence in the balkan region and the chance to take entire north africa for themselves as they would have to occupie it over the italians vici-france and the german support .so although churchill was a man build for war he had enough reasons to fight it .and sweden had no choice mate ,i live there and i am sure that swedish resistance would become a disaster .and you say i sound anti german ,for that i am sorry .i am not anti german but as i wrote the comment i was annoyed by you stating we should be on your side .the last thing you say is easy to answer : the german assault on other countries and the crimes they committed in them not their idioligie and political system caused the destruction of germany ,you of everyone should know that .and the amis unlike Afghanistan wherent there for fun having little to gain in europe except for maintaining a trade route with Europa .i am also happy to hear no counter argument for the german crimes committed ,sry for being angry then but you understand my point there
Yes I understand you I think thanks for the discussion. You must know Iīm a patriot and I will defend my country, but I accept also all crimes and dark sides, because we have both, good and bad times in our history. In modern times I want friendship among the countries anyway, I just want to say to the people, also Germans were victims, not only the others.
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`anmari has been spreading her infectious positivity throughout our community for over 6 years. Throughout this time Ana has been at the core of all things devious, passionately developing an eclectic gallery, helping organise devmeets, participating in chat events and also recently completed dedicating her time as a Community Volunteer. We are absolutely delighted to bestow the Deviousness Award for May 2013 to `anmari, congratulations! Read More