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Deviousness `anmari has been spreading her infectious positivity throughout our community for over 6 years. Throughout this time Ana has been at the core of all things devious, passionately developing an eclectic gallery, helping organise devmeets, participating in chat events and also recently completed dedicating her time as a Community Volunteer. We are absolutely delighted to bestow the Deviousness Award for May 2013 to `anmari, congratulations! Read More
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Sta.sh
We all know the Nazis did awful crimes, but it is never ok to do the same, or should the allies ("good guys") do the same as a Nazi? You must see every crime on its own, not compare them.
Why did they bomb the cities? You might think to destroy the military and industrial areas...but the only reason was, to damage the moral. And this not reason enough to kill and burn 600.000 people (from 1939-1945).
Especially not a few weeks before the red army reached Berlin. Dresden had no military and no important industry and it was full of hundred-thousands of expelled people from the east, cause the red army killed and expelled 15 million from the german east-regions.
It can never be right to punish the normal people for what the government did.
Especially as a dutch you should be on our side, you were part of the german states till 1648! The Amis call you "Dutch" because they couldnīt pronounce deutsch. Youīre part of the german nether-franconian tribe.
How can normal people deserve to burn alive and sink half in the melting streets? Ever seen videos or pictures what happened to the beautiful Dresden?
Iīm really sorry for what happened to Rotterdam, but especially because you know how barbaric this was, how can you dare to say the same must happen to people in Dresden?
And Dresden was only the peak of the iceberg, nearly all big cities were bombed down. In Dresden died in 24 hours more civilians than in the whole war in England.
I highly wish Butcher Harris burns in hell.
But I donīt agree in how you use "you", what means the Germans for sure, because you must say the Nazis, you must see Germany also as occupied by them, they killed also all Germans that didnīt think like them, or do you think only jews were killed in Germany by them?
We did also suffer by our government and that is the mistake you make, you think: government and political system = Germany, but thatīs wrong, they havnīt got to sth. with the 1000 year old cultural nation Germany and the normal Germans.
The people who had to join the Volkssturm had no choice btw.
Just a few quotes by Churchill to change your view:
Iīm not interested in any industrial areas in Dresden, I want to kill the refugees from Breslau!
I donīt care if Germany is leaded by Hitler or a priest, I want to destroy it.
Or read about the Morgenthau-Plan, where a jewish man really thought about sterilizing all Germans to wipe them completely out.
You really think the allied did that because of the Nazis? Do you think Britain, the most racistic colonial-empire since centuries did want to liberate jews? No they feared only the german power, nothing else.
So you canīt respect the bomber-pilots or their leaders, they were the same might-hungry asses as the Nazis.
So itīs a rather wrong argument to say, he caused 64 million deaths. The world war wouldīve come anyway, Stalin was ready to attack. Thanks to the Germans only half of Europe became communistic, Stalin was ready to attack , too, his plan was that Germany, France and England attack each other, become very weak after 2-3 years and then he invades whole Europe.
Thatīs why Stalin didnīt talk for a week, when he found out that the Germans attack, he knew, his plan for world-domination was dead now.
And well Germany offered England a thousand times peace, why should they want to destroy a nation that is germanic, too? (Anglo-Saxons). But Churchill this war-criminal didnīt want it, tho the british king was for Germany, as well as the swedish.
Yes the defeated pay the price, but that doesnīt mean they deserve it, it sounds extremely antigerman, when you say, the Dresdner shouldīve died itīs ok.
What if Germany was not a dictatorship, but fought in a normal war, would they deserve it too? Or only when theyīre Nazis? The Amis wouldīve killed them anyway, not matter if theyīre good or bad.
And...its not accurate to say the world war would have come anyway, that sounds like an excuse, and its not a very good arguemnt to say that the nazis stopped stalin from taking over europe, they really just gave him an excuse to go foreword with it quickly. Stalin took east europe because he declared war on germany because of stalingrad and operation barbarossa.
Germany might have offered peace to englnad but it was more of a 'give me the land or I kill you' peace. Besides, it wasnt Englnad that wanted to fight, hitler invaded poland and continuously broke his promises not to invade. England had an obligation to defend poland and stop itself from being attacked because hitler made it quite clear he wasnt going to stop invading.
And I'm VERY insulted. The Morgenthau-plan wasnt a plan to sterilize all of Germany, it was a plan by Henry Morgenthau jr. (who yes was a jew) for how germany should be treated after the war. The plan laid out that germany should be weakened so that it wouldnt be able to make war again, basically have its war industry taken apart, have it repay people it had occupied, give certain land peices to poland and have the land splitinto three states, the plan was shot down for being too harsh and instead they came up with the marshall plan [link] The plan never said anything about sterlilization, you must be referring to the quote by not Morgenthau, but henry roosevelt, quote "We have got to be tough with Germany and I mean the German people not just the Nazis. We either have to castrate the German people or you have got to treat them in such a manner so they can't just go on reproducing people who want to continue the way they have in the past." That castration wasnt in the plan. But the way you said 'jewish plan to sterilize the germans' isnt only wrong its quite insulting as I've literally been on neo-nazi sites that said that sort of thing, not to mention Joseph Goebbels said this plan was a 'jewish plan to subjugate germany' and used it as an excuse to kill even more jews.
Naterally, i'm the one whoposted this picture, so the innocents didnt deserve this and the memorial is totally appropriate. And you know me, I'm far from anti-german.
Thatīs why I definitly say, it was right to attack Poland, but not the way they did it and what they did afterwards of course. But if you would know the stories of the East-Germans and what the Poles, Russians and many others did with the Germans 1945/ 46, you wouldnīt say anything against it.
England and France surely couldīve stayed neutral till that date. And why didnīt they declare war on Russia, too? It took half of Poland, too 2 weeks later.
Iīm not sure if it was Morgenthau or Kaufmann plan, one of it was a cruel plan, the other one was a bit softer. But both plans were antigerman and wouldnīt allow Germany to have a normal proud place under the other nations.
I said itīs a jewish plan, because a jewish man did it, nothing else XD Donīt be offended
In modern times I want friendship among the countries anyway, I just want to say to the people, also Germans were victims, not only the others.